POLL: U.S. Air Force Academy Undermines Atheist Venue Gathering, Right or Wrong?
The Show Must Go On - organizers and sponsors worked hard at the last minute to make accommodations for the large scale event.
The U.S. Air Force Academy has pulled out of their commitment with no concrete reasons to host a previously planned speaking engagement by Richard Dawkins for Monday, Oct. 15, that offered free entry for military families.
Back in March Fort Bragg held the "Rock Beyond Belief " atheist concert and nearly 9,000 Patch readers responded with a resounding 'yes' that they planned to attend the concert- which received more support than expected by Fort Bragg authorities. The event was a big win for the atheist community and they followed up with a large food donation for the homeless at their after hours party.
According to the Free Thought Blog, the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science has secured the University of Colorado at Boulder's Macky Auditorium instead.
Leave your comments below about the situation.
According to Justin Griffith, the Military Director for American Atheists who spearheaded Fort Bragg's 'Rock Beyond Belief' atheist festival, he said: "I’m not surprised at the extremely tardy finalization (or lack thereof, rather.) It took me 18 + months to secure the Fort Bragg main post parade field for Richard Dawkins back in March. 1500 people showed up! Earlier, they tried to shove us into a small movie theater, telling reporters that only a hundred people would likely attend (reporters laughed at this, and immediately called me for comment)… In the end, Fort Bragg commanders really came through for us in a big way. It was a breakthrough, and it was hard-won. Every day was a cut-throat game of chess, but by the end of it – it seemed like we all were on the same side."
Justin Griffith
12:01 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I'd say 'no'. Though it can be legal for the government to host these events (look into 'limited public forum'), it can be costly and divisive. If you host a Christian event, you have to be willing to host a Wiccan event, a Muslim event, and yes - an atheist event.
The concept of equality is all or nothing. You either give *all* to every point of view, or you give *nothing* to every point of view. Either way is legal. 'Nothing' is easiest to enforce, and the least expensive.
The problem is, until this March, the only large events being hosted were universally evangelical Christian events. It's still a huge problem at many bases. Camp Pendleton (a Marine Corps base in California) is regularly hosting massive evangelical events, paid for largely by a end-times obsessed sect that is plagued with sex-abuse scandals. As long as those bases promise to support all groups equally (and actually do), it's legal. As we found out at Fort Bragg, the Christian groups stop doing their extravagant festivals as soon as the atheists demand equality.
Honestly, I think it's best to let the chaplains do their thing in the chapels, and keep all these events from multi-million dollar religious groups off post. Tend to the flocks, don't grow them.
Desiree Bell-Fowlks
5:52 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Mr. Griffith says it the best. Not much more to add except that he is super awesome for standing up for equal treatment for all.
Chris Munro
1:27 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Voted no and think Mr. Griffith has pretty much made any point I would've. Speaking as secularist and a taxpayer, If evangelical nonsense is going to get preferential treatment, I'd rather the military didn't host anything at all.
aveteran
1:43 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Given the Taliban-like leadership and religious climate of the Academy, it's not surprising. Time for another discrimination lawsuit.
Jamin Liberum Cogitari
2:01 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
As long as it's not an anti-government/anti-war/hate-orientated event... But one must remember when dealing with the US military they're not dealing with a very free or democratic organization - just an organization that's supposed to protect freedom and democracy for the rest of the country.
Cynthia Wesley
5:35 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
This country was founded by the grace of God. God bless America. In God we trust, etc. There are chapels on each military base. Having faith in God gives us hope for everlasting life. There is no hope in atheism. The USA is a christian country. That is why we have the freedoms, liberty and justice in our country. People may choose whatever they want to believe in, but our military must hold fast to our christian heritage for the good of our country.
Angie
5:44 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Actually In God we Trust was not added until 1956, I respect your belief in faith, but it's only fair to respect ALL faiths and beliefs. The military is made up of all walks of life and all religions and by acknowledging only yours is not fair to anyone. The soldiers fight for EVERYONE'S freedom and should be entitled to their own.
Rick Daly
9:41 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
According to Article 11 of the Treaty With Tripoli, signed by "Founding Father" John Adams... the U.S. is specifically NOT a "christian country".
Curious how "christianity" is not mentioned ONE TIME in either the U.S. Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence.
You would think that if ANYTHING you said is true... either of those documents would mention "Jesus" at least ONCE!
You're wrong...
The United States of America is NOT a christian nation, so get over yourself.
Lee Seligman, USNA '60
5:55 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
BRAVO ZULU, Justin ! It is too bad USAFA and way too many elements of the US military have become arms of the "amerikan taliban".
Cynthia Wesley
6:08 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Its fine for people to believe in what they want, but don't change the military and don't change this country. There are reasons people from other countries flee their own and run to ours, the greatest country in the world. This country was not founded by atheists.
Brent
8:22 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Um, try learning history. Most of the Founders were Deists, and only that because Darwin had yet to describe evolution. They would be appalled at the violation of the state by the church today.
Rick Daly
9:43 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
You need some serious history lessons.
Charles Wesley
6:50 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Whats wrong with You people?
This IS a Christan Nation whether you Belive or Not.
This is America whether you Like It or Not.
Kevin R. Cross
7:44 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Never was, never will be. America was based on tolerance, not the cyclopic view of a single sect.
aveteran
8:24 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
What the heck is wrong with YOU? The Constitution says not one word about Christianity, and went so far as to prohibit the establishment of any official religion or discrimination based on belief. This is a secular nation, formed by men who well understood the inherent evil and corruption of a religion-controlled government. You're free to believe what nonsense you wish, but not to force others to agree with you.
Brent
8:19 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I'd say no - but that doesn't even apply to Dawkins. Dawkins is a SCIENTIST; he is not promoting belief in a religion, nor is his role in society religious. It's true that some religious believers think so, but then they are just afraid of facts.
Charles Wesley
8:27 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I think You peolpe are missing the point, Athest or Atheism is Not a Religion, for they are against any and all Religions.
Brent
8:47 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Actually, it's not religion per se we oppose, just the prioritizing of faith over logic and evidence. If religion would be willing to prove ANYTHING they said was reality, I'd be in support of it. As of yet, they haven't.
Charles Wesley
10:17 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Brent, who are you that Jesus should prove himself to?
Do always think of yourself so highly?
I guess you will just have to wait until you pass over before you relize that there is something greater than yourself Brent.
aveteran
8:28 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Why shouldn't your alleged Jesus prove his existence? There sure isn't any evidence of him as of yet.
Rick Daly
9:46 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Charles... I hate to break it to you... but Jesus is dead.
He died some 2000 years ago (if he ever actually existed)... and he's not coming back.
This is just a fact, so don't get offended.
I'm trying to help you here.
Lee Seligman, USNA '60
3:52 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
I am just amazed at the willingness to publicly expose their [e.g., charles wesley, cynthia wesley ... hmmm ... wonder if it's genetic, contagious or just stupid coincidence] ignorance in public ! Forrest Gump must have had them in mind when he stated "Stupid is as stupid does !"
Justin Griffith
7:50 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Still showing only 1 vote in favor of special treatment for Christians only. One of the two Wesley's forgot to vote or voted incorrectly. Please oh please let that be an indicator for a certain other upcoming poll.
Joseph Stricklin
10:55 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Fail Wesley trolls are fail. LOL
Joseph Stricklin
10:57 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
You guys proved them wrong in every statement and they keep typing the same crap...lol. and by "they" I mean some 12 yearold boy who just graduated from bible school.
Cynthia Wesley
11:58 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Nothing you atheists say disproves the Bible. Nothing you say is based on fact, only theory. People all laughed at Noah too and they all died in the flood. If you want to base your salvation on theory and here say from scientists that is up to you. Its sad to see people with such pride and hard heartedness. Your minds are full of lies from the devil. So sad you cannot see the truth.
Desiree Bell-Fowlks
5:55 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
LOL. You are talking about facts then mention Noah and the flood. This is why no one is taking you seriously when you state myths as facts.
Cynthia Wesley
1:11 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Rick Daly
About John Adams stating this is not a christian country, look at the whole picture of what was going on there. For three centuries up to the time of the treaty muslim pirates were capturing christians, killing them or using thems as slaves, keeping them as hostages for money from the USA. John Adams most likely made that statement thinking he was protecting our people. Obama, if you recall, tried the same thing by stating the USA is a MUSLIM country!!!
aveteran
1:19 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
No, Cynthia, you are blatantly lying. He never called the US a Muslim country.
aveteran
1:15 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Cynthia, nothing you have said has proven your fairytale claims. Wake up and join reality.
Cynthia Wesley
2:52 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
aveteran
Oh you make me laugh. Just take a look on YouTube June 3 2009.
Ermine
6:48 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
That returns several million hits, Cynthia. If you can't offer a better pointer than -that-, I'm going to have to continue to assume that you're lying. Now, I've heard Obama say that the USA isn't JUST a Christian country, it's also atheist, Hindu, Jewish, etc. If he made a statement of inclusiveness like that and included Muslims, he was correct - but I'm not going to believe ANY claims of yours without solid evidence, not when you're also making claims to things as obviously UN-true as a global flood that killed everyone but one family and a boat full of animals. Sorry, that never happened
Sean
7:05 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Dear, Weselys: please remember that many Christians are virtuous, but many people were virtuous before Christ arrived. There were good men and women who loved their children, served their countries and sacrificed themselves for higher beliefs. The same is true today. Christianity is not a requirement for goodness for The Lord can speak to men's hearts, even if they deny the source of the truth. Lets focus on Jesus' teachings. Not his ego.
Brian
8:22 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Cynthia is exactly what is wrong with the country today. An undereducated, conspiracy theorist, Christian nutjob.
Ender Wiggin
2:53 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
The Air Force Academy did not commit to hosting Dr Dawkins' political rally. The opening sentence of this posting is incorrect. University of Colorado, Colorado Springs (UCCS) contacted the Academy to see if they could use an Academy facility since their venues were to small based on projected attendance. After further review, UCCS decided to not to host Dr Dawkins' political rally wrapped in book tour trappings. To determine if this is a political rally see Dr Dawkins' web-site on the subject for yourself, to include the material on the two other speakers in addition to Dr Dawkins. Decide for yourself.
Ermine
6:21 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
"Nothing you say is based on fact, only theory" Here we have yet another ignorant idiot who doesn't understand what "theory" means in the realm of science. Also someone who is willing to ignore all of modern science to cling to their superstitions. Lady, there never was a global flood. It didn't happen, and modern genetics, population dynamics, and geology all make that quite clear. No, I refuse to believe in your fairy stories, your magic man in the sky, or your magic book, as long as -reality- continues to prove them wrong. Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance, but at long last the world has begun to wise up, and with all the benefits that modern science has to offer us, we're going to PROGRESS and leave the superstitious children behind.
priscilla parker
4:24 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
This article is inaccurate. Fort Bragg authorized this event in October 2010. It was originally called the Fort Bragg Freedom Festival and was being headed by the Cape Fear Atheist Association. SGT Griffith was a member of that organization until he stole this events website and called the Military Religious Freedom Foundation who then threatened and bullied the original organizers of the event. This led to SGT Griffith being banned by the atheist organization in Fayetteville for nearly a year and a half. They only removed the ban because he held this over their heads and refused to allow them a presence at RBB. It was the atheist organizations crying that the military should return to a "no-public forum" so there should be no complaining when they uphold that and cancel an event that allows an outspoken public figure for atheism to 'proselytize' his personal beliefs.
Desiree Bell-Fowlks
5:58 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Then you should have no problem if the military cancels christian and other religious events. Equal treatment and all that.
priscilla parker
10:50 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Fort Bragg does provide equal treatment. They allowed RBB to take place and provided the same support for that event that they did for Rock the Fort. It was originally scheduled for April 2, 2011 but was cancelled not by the installation but by SGT Griffith. Fort Bragg also allowed the president of the American Humanist Association to speak just this past month (September) on the installation. The speaking engagement was held in Watters Family Life Center, which is a chapel on Fort Bragg. The story that there is discrimination was manufactured by a certain "civil rights' organizations to gain publicity. They got their 15 minutes and demonstrated what their true motives were.
If a christian event was associated with organizations that were publically defaming the military on a regular basis and filing lawsuits or threatening to file lawsuits against the military every time the military did something they didn't like, of course the military should not entertain such a group. Most Christian organizations or agency working with the military however, are doing it to provide services to the soldiers and their families. That's a good thing.
Desiree Bell-Fowlks
11:12 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Oh please more christian crying about being treated unfairly. Christian hegemony is being challegened so you make up lies about Mr. Griffith organization that you have no knowledge about. This not about publicity. This is about getting the same treatment and respect from the military they give chritians. The motives for atheists organizations is not to attack christians or the military, but to have the rights given by the constitution. These groups fight the military from forcing atheists and non christians from being discriminated against. Christian groups can continue helping troops and their families, but they should not get favoritism and special treatment.
priscilla parker
11:43 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Desiree, I was the co-organizer for Rock Beyond Belief and worked with Mr. Griffith on several other "projects." I know exactly what happened with that event and how Mr. Griffith works. I can understand wanting to defend a movement you feel is justified but you have to be willing to admit you may have been wrong about things when the whole story is presented to you. As I said already, AHA's president was allowed to speak at a chapel on Fort Bragg in September. The reason for this was because a secular soldier worked WITH the chaplaincy on Fort Bragg. He did not attack them or accuse them of discriminating against atheist soldiers because they don't and neither does Fort Bragg. I've been in contact with Fort Bragg command about this for over a year and a half. i think I know what I'm talking about.
Read Ender Wiggins comment. He's pretty close to what happened. After reviewing Dr. Dawkins history, namely his involvement with RBB, and how this speaking engagement was advertise by his own site, the military retained it's "no-public forum" policy and denied the request.